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  • He seems good. I'm not a nightly watcher any more, but I'll check it out to see how the vibe changes.
  • The Patton Oswalt thing was pretty great.

  • Ok, whatever, I don't know anything about this dude or his comedy past/present, but I will say that "fat chicks" jokes are REALLY unappealing to me.
  • As are his "jokes" about Jews & women (in general).

    Ijeoma Oluo's column on this is well worth a read.
  • I are going to have to hate a lot of comedians if those are your standards for comedy. I really don't understand the problem with the Jewish jokes as he IS Jewish and Stewart himself made a joke about Jewish people almost nightly and people didn't have a problem with it. The jokes about women are not great but again, you are going to have to write off almost all male comedians. A lot of whom actually delivered sexist jokes which I think is way worse than a group of tweets (which are text and there fore interpreted as half projections from the reader) from three years ago that I definitely don't think necessitates saying ALL his jokes are about Jews and women. But maybe you guys are not implying writing him off and are simply criticizing rationally the parts of his bad jokes that deserve criticism and aren't turning him into a hyperbolically criticized martyr.
  • Well of course I'll give him a chance. I mean, I'm not that into comedy, anyway, mostly because, as you say, so much of it has to do with making jokes at the expense of others, which I really just don't find funny 99% of the time. I think jokes about people's logic or behavior are funny, because we can generalize to all humans and make fun of ourselves in the process, but jokes about people's core identities or the "groups" they fall into (e.g. "women," "republicans," "Jews," "fat people," "black people") are pretty gross to me. And the argument "But he IS a Jew" holds no weight whatsoever in my book. I'm a woman, but that doesn't make it right for me to make fun of other women.
  • edited April 2015
    That's fair. The he is Jewish defense was more just questioning why it is so offensive, for some people, when it comes from him but not from others. Is it because he has the features of a black fella? Race is just such a weird, mostly completely constructed by human beings thing. Really we are all mixed up to the point of we are all everything, but I also don't think there is a human being alive that isn't racist and prejudice to some degree. It is "problematic". Barf.
  • It's such a bummer because fat joke, women/jew jokes, etc., are obviously stupid and unhelpful and not funny, but at the same time I do think our culture is becoming way too sensitive about language, to the point where we get more upset about a word someone says than we do about, you know, the police murdering innocent people, or whatever. I think we focus on words and language because it's something we feel we can control, whereas the big-picture stuff is so overwhelming we just would rather not think about it. Like if we can make sure no one uses the word "fat" as an insult then somehow we will have actually solved anything about external reality. I think we would rather just avoid thinking about difficult stuff than actually change that stuff, and the way we get so upset about words I think is part of this.

    ANDYET, relying on jokes at the expense of already-marginalized or struggling people is so lazy, and letting people get away with these jokes doesn't feel right either. They aren't "just jokes." Language does mean stuff; language does have power. Calling out bullshit is righteous.

    So I was simultaneously exhilarated and bummed out by Oswalt's epic rant. I think the way people are starting to demand that every single public statement apply to them, personally, in exactly the right way (so we can't say that abortion is a women's issue, because some trans-men get abortions; or we can't talk about obesity as a social problem because some people are proud to be fat; or we need to give constant trigger warnings to make sure every possible type of discomfort or trauma is swaddled with care before we read, see, or discuss anything; or whatever) is narcissistic and terrifying and bad for discourse and totally stymying of actual political change, and I think he's right to skewer this cultural tendency. On the other hand, SIGH, it has to be yet another straight white man telling the rest of us to "learn how to take a joke."

    I guess I wish this stuff would be more of a discourse, a discussion, than just "racist joke" "outraged response" repeat ad nauseum.
  • I also want jokes to be actually funny
  • All other issues aside, can we talk about how jokes about fat chicks and Jews seems like a time warp from 30 years ago??
  • Yeah, I mean, I'm not up in arms about it. It just seems lazy, as you say, to make those jokes, so I'm *certainly* not going to get myself worked up defending someone who makes them. Again, I think Stewart has done a truly marvelous job at being hilarious without making these lazy jokes.

    I do think you bring up two different issues, YT - the idea that we can't use general terms (e.g. abortion is a "women's" issue) in everyday discourse is definitely a challenge, and/but it seems different from the issue of comedians writing jokes that make fun of groups of people.

    Speaking of lazy, though, I am feeling super lazy at this moment so should not be trying to type anything coherent here. Good bye.
  • It seems like the thing that qualifies someone for the gig is mostly their skill as a performer and secondarily as an interviewer. Remember, Stewart had the benefit of a large team of writers, most of whom are sticking around. The bad tweets are evidence of dude being not a phenomenally skilled writer/editor, but presumably such missteps would not make it out of the writers' room.
  • Patton Oswalt: also not a very skilled writer. I liked him in Ratatouille.
  • Jokes about "Republicans" are funny tho because their politics are shitty and are worthy of our disdain and mockery.
  • All offense intended, KMikeyM.
  • jokes about republican politicians are funny. jokes about republican voters are hit and miss.
  • Yeah good point Flossy about a difference between a professional comedian's jokes and regular discourse.

    and yeah it's true that when a comedian makes a fat joke or a "jew" joke I do feel like I am time warping. Just the fact of someone being fat or jewish or female does not seem inherently funny to me, but I know I am in the minority on this one (apparently)

    it's hard though when people who are actually black/jewish/fat/women whatever make jokes about those things because I think they have the right to explore those experiences via comedy, and I think comedy can be an amazing way to dig into issues, flay them open, see what's making them tick, etc. Again, I think I just want the jokes to be actually funny and interesting in some way. When Louis C.K. makes jokes about being fat it doesn't seem wrong to me, it seems honest and funny and like he's actually exploring an aspect of his own life in an interesting way, which I think he has the right to do. But I'm sure another person could experience it in a totally different way, and find those jokes emo. I have a super feminist friend who loves comedy and thinks Amy Schumer is "anti-feminist" and I feel like Schumer is pretty consistently and often even powerfully feminist in her work, like some of her sketches make me want to yell "SPEAK SISTER" at the tv, and so we just disagree, even though the object of study is right there in front of us. My friend thinks ANY JOKE ABOUT RAPE is by definition anti-feminist and I think that is insane. I think rape is just as available for comedy as anything else--the Iraq war, racism, any number of other dark things people make amazing comedy about. And especially when women make super insightful jokes about rape I find it really empowering.

    God modern life is hard

    I think comedy is hard because it's so slippery and hard to pin down. It's famously hard to explain why something is funny to someone who doesn't "get" it. Good comedy is usually based on all kinds of ironies and evasions that obscure meaning, and that obscurity is part of what makes you laugh, as you work to overcome it and then suddenly what the comedian is "really saying" leaps out at you and surprises you

    jokes about republicans don't offend me but I do still want them to be actually funny

    I'm actually really tired of the verb "to offend" and think we should all try to stop using it. Lets find other ways of expressing our feelings, as that word is played the fuck out
  • I guess the difference for me between (what I've seen of) Louis CK's jokes about being fat, and jokes I find lazy and mean, are that the latter jokes make fun of "people who are fat" whereas Louis CK seems to be making fun of his own very personal fatness. That's so different to me than tweeting some stupid made-up quote and attributing it to "fat chicks everywhere."

    As I've said before in other threads on UHX, I am extremely against the idea of "grouping" people, period, but esp. when we're criticizing them or poking fun at them. I think it's ludicrous to lump all people who register with the republican party together into one big group and determine that this group is deserving of public ridicule, but that's just me. Why not make fun of the logic of people within the party? There are plenty of examples to choose from! It doesn't take that much more effort to make fun of republican logic rather than "republican people," IMO.

  • Republican jokes are funny because they are true. All offense taken. It's not easy being a Republican, but part of the fun is pretending to feel persecuted by the liberal media.

  • yeah good distinctions, FL!

  • edited April 2015
  • People always talk about the "liberal media" and then liberals talk about how the 1% control the media and can't get their stories out. Rather than thinking about this as left vs right or rich vs. poor we should have sympathy for the media itself. Yanked around by all sides! Poor little media!
  • Easy for you to laugh up there in your ivory tower!
  • hahahahaaaaaaa

    laughing all the way to the BANK
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